Hi Airborne I have been reading about the Strike Brigades on here and elsewhere and share your concerns for our version of the concept, but I also think there is a serious missunderstanding of the key feature of the Strike Brigade concept amongst politicians in particular – Strategic Mobility. Dr Sandy Wilson, president and managing director, said: “We are delighted that PIRANHA V is the British Army’s choice for the FRES Utility Vehicle. The Deputy Chief of Defence Staff (Equipment Capability) was responsible for equipment capability but did not sit on the Defence Procurement Agency Equipment Approval Committee. Now that “standard” 8×8 protection levels have grown beyond what a C-130 can carry I would love to see the IBCTs transition from the Stryker to the Boxer (wishful thinking I know) as in my opinion it’s a much better vehicle for that role that the current Stryker and we get the added bonus of commonality with our allies in both Europe and Australia. After SDSR 2010, the Three Month Exercise and a planned exit from Afghanistan on the horizon, It was becoming apparent that the Multi-Role Brigade construct was not sustainable. The Alvis share of the development phase will be approximately £35m and its share of the initial production phase is expected to exceed £200m. Why wear out an expensive drive module on exercise when the exercise environment may not warrant it? the final unit cost would rise. (If anyone have information about how it was a serious contender, I'm interested) The market was assessed, all 8×8 vehicle manufacturers invited to provide information and three vehicles selected to go forward to the so-called ‘Trials of Truth’ in summer. I recall that sort of logistic set up was last done on… Read more », I concur with Daniele, reading both yours and BV Buster’s take down of this is fascinating and even made more so by the relevant experience you both have, But hat tipped to Daniele, for someone with no experience, you are clued up mate on all this, great insight. Yes they are testing it, but why test if they are not planning on, or hoping to, taking advantage of it? a single Brigade HQ and 3-5 battlegroups plucked from the pool of types appropriate to the operation, no doubt including Adaptable units with protected mobility included. That is a relatively short-term role one would think, we shouls get at least some of them back some day. Though not in service with the armies of Germany and the Netherlands, Lithuanian purchased 88 vehicles in August 2016. As can be seen from the above press release, each of the Artec consortium members will receive 50% of the order, and each of these conducting the majority of their share in the UK through two subsidiaries; Rheinmetall BAE Systems Land (RBSL) and KMW’s subsidiary WFEL. Forgive me, I’m a little confused about this “warrior replacement”. You want that level of mix and match, you need ATTCs. Fiscal constraints aside, I like the overall direction the UK is heading with its armored vehicle programs. US operations in the Balkans during the early nineties, particularly the Sava River crossing and Task Force Hawk had created an increasing impetus for change with the US Army’s vehicles. Discussions also started with the Netherlands about joining the programme. This was joined-up thinking across the whole of defence. No argument that the turret upgrade might one half to one third the cost of an Ajax IFV but I would argue that the Ajax IFV is a better investment in the long run than the turret upgrade. Leveraging such information superiority will provide greater force protection as battlefield commanders will be better positioned to dictate terms of engagement to opposing forces, mitigating the effects of lighter armour configurations. Following a period of intensive negotiations with General Dynamics to address a number of commercial issues, it became clear to both parties that it would not be possible to reach agreement on the commercial conditions required to enable further progress on the basis of the current procurement strategy. General Figgures confirmed that Mastiff and Vector were not considered long-term solutions. General? For a LOS engagement, laser designation, no problem (other than you expose your designator’s position, but let’s not go there). To my mind there’s a fairly simple way of granting the strike brigades some firepower and making them all-wheeled formations. The UK will re-join the Boxer programme and explore options to equip the Army with the 8×8 troop carriers to modernise its vehicle fleet and meet the Army’s Mechanised Infantry Vehicle requirement. The project also offers UK industry the opportunity to strengthen its links with the leading companies in the European armoured vehicles industry. After a series of reported ‘blazing rows,’ Lord Drayson resigned in November 2007. The vehicle offers a cost-effective and robust solution that complies fully with the Defence Industrial Strategy. In my own personal opinion, I think it’s utter codswallop…. In theory, the loss rates should be shaped like a bell curve with the highest point at the 6,000km mark though I know enough about life to guess that to get a nice curve, you probably got to play some ‘best fit’ games. The Family of Light Armoured Vehicles (FLAV) study became the Future Family of Light Armoured Vehicles (FFLAV) study. boxer and patria amv are both excellent vehicle I always preferred patria because most if not all the variants we would want are already there to buy. As FRES progressed during the initial stages (whilst MRAV was still running or only recently closed), these conflicts between the transformationists and traditionalists would play out in a number of different ways that ultimately, crippled the programme. A sorry story of indecision, changing requirements and delay. If we bought something now literally off the shelf effectively we would have to shoe-horn in, as we do on UORs at the moment, a series of subcomponents in a very poor fashion and it would have very limited life, so it would be a bad decision. mr fred, I think it’s only a matter of time before they eventually get an IFV variant since the alternative is a new vehicle entirely which I doubt they can pry out the budget for, especially since they got a 4 man recce support variant and the ASCOD it was developed from had an 8 man dismount variant. However, in early 2001 the Netherlands signed a Memorandum of Understanding and joined the pro… 1 x Armoured Engineer Reg (Trojan/Titan/Terrier) Out of all the platforms mentioned only… Read more ». (3) I think it was Carter who said that NATO land’s reliance on air superiority was no longer assured, the implication I took ftom it being that 3 Div will have to have something bigger and better than Starstreak and Rapier for area air defence. FRES was still seen as the long-term solution to Army requirements and the protected mobility fleet were for ‘over there’, certainly not how the Army saw it fighting in the future, or how they would want to fight. The Medium Weight Capability strategic intent was defined as: MWCap is an effects-based military capability made up of Joint Force Elements and optimised for Focused Intervention, Power Projection and Peace Support Operations. Germany and the Netherlands were left as the ‘none too chuffed’ partners in the MRAV programme but they stayed the course and the first production-ready prototype was delivered in December 2003, shown below. Land is not my specialist environment but I do like a streamlined procurement and supply chain. Both RBSl and WFEL continued to develop their respective supply chains throughout 2019 and 2020, with additional development and trials work being conducted in conjunction with the Armoured Trials and Development Unit (ATDU). This not only avoids unnecessary duplication of development and production costs but makes sound operational sense. And that forces would need to be more joint, exploit technology and more be expeditionary. At the RUSI Land Warfare Conference, General Sir Peter Wall, the Chief of the General Staff, commented: We have got far too used to a post-expeditionary psyche, where we have hard-wired bandwidth and quite sophisticated facilities in places like Camp Bastion. With the likes of Rolls Royce already powering Boxers with engines and Parker-Hannifin, William Cook Engineering and other British companies also supplying sub-systems for the vehicle, this deal could secure a broader industrial UK partnership. Not sure what the norms are here about sharing links, apologies if I violated them. Enough Ajax Scout would still be needed for 2 Regiments in the Strike Brigades and to furnish the recc platoons in the Warrior Battalions and Challenger Regiments. !’ :). And you’re right, despite all the above, U.K. is indeed buying some very good kit for its army. She also asked whether FRES is affordable. @Observer: I’m perfectly well aware of what worn track pins and incorrectly tensioned tracks can do. In March, it was announced that FRES Specialist Vehicles would be obtained in a single programme, this would go to become Ajax. The Stryker is way too light, though to be fair, it was one of the first ‘new’ 8x8s to come into service and weight creep only started years after it came out. For no other reason than to give the strike brigades a fighting chance of using the strategic mobility which sets it apart from the amd brigades. This represents a significant commitment from Rheinmetall which will lead to long-lasting armoured vehicle capability in the UK.Further, Rheinmetall intends to establish a modern production and integration centre for armoured vehicles in the UK as part of the programme. Are people forgetting that there are a lot of 432 variants that still need replacing in the armd brigades plus Challenger upgrades let alone MRVP 4×4 and 6×6 to procure before we start dreaming of an Ajax IFV. This was yet another media article that contributed to the speculation regarding MIV and its acquisition strategy, especially in balancing speed into service and degree by which the UK supply chain can be established. – the bang for the buck that MIV will bring into the party (or, call it “medium” formations more generically) is the one in the middle of the list. The FRES programme will equip the Army with a range of new vehicle types over and above the utility variant. Would it be fair to say that joint effects based transformation were being solely driven by the RAF and RN, probably not, but they were very influential and this overall theme would, in turn, influence the Army and its vehicle choices? what that means is that, on a 2000kms move, you can expect to have to recover/repair fully one third of the vehicles. ‘I present to you the worlds first 8X8 go anywhere under fire NAAFI wagon!’ Can’t find it now, but the point is that modules are not just left lying around, they are stored carefully in vehicle depots. This is a medium-weight force, but the technology to which the Minister has referred is very demanding and, frankly, I do not know whether it will work because in order to get down there we are dependent, for example, on electric drive, so will that work? OCCAR is a European intergovernmental organisation which facilitates and manages collaborative armament programmes through their lifecycle between the UK and European allies. I think most people agree that Ajax should not be in the strike bdes but we have just spent a sh*t load of money on the vehicles and we need to use them, hence strike. They are not bad platforms, just past their prime, and outclassed by just about every other modern AFV out there. The UK played a central role in the original design, development and testing of the Boxer. Beyond that, I hesitate to promise anything. It introduced the innovative Strike brigades, based on the new AJAX vehicle family and the development of Specialised Infantry battalions, reconfigured to provide an increased contribution to countering terrorism and building stability overseas. General Dynamics opened a FRES UK Joint Programme Office, David Gould and Dr Sandy Wilson presiding. It’s really getting old and IIRC the hull is aluminum which limits how much more weight you can add to it. FCS was looking at replacing the concept of the main battle tank, FRES recognised the role of heavy forces. The FRES family of vehicles is vital for the Army of the future. Following the appalling events of 11 September, the Secretary of State for Defence announced that the Ministry of Defence would look again at how we organise our defence. The design quickly matured and the prototype featured the now familiar demountable payload modules. The ARTEC Boxer 8×8 armoured vehicle will meet the British Army’s Mechanised Infantry Vehicle (MIV) requirement that will equip the new Strike Brigades. I guess its not much use in the Middle East and they figured they have plenty of options in Eastern Europe to cross rivers. BAE also won the Gap Crossing and Electronic Architecture TDP’s. mr fred, I’m sure we all heard of the old details like how aluminum gave the same structural rigidity of steel for 1/3 the weight, which works ok if the vehicle weight was fixed for life but when upgrades and applique add more weight to it, steel adapts better to the added weight since it has a fatigue limit (the limit below which you can load all you want without causing fatigue stress) while aluminum does not, so it wears down eventually even under light cyclic loading. Confirmed of the bulging out of the medium weight capability at the expense of light and heavy forces, FRES would be ‘significantly lighter’ than the current heavy forces and Challenger, Warrior and AS90, which was taken to mean sub 20 tonnes. Bill Jeffries sided with the Army, Lord Drayson wrote to Des Brown (Secretary of State for Defence), laying out the impasse. Also at the start of the year, a number of companies were lining up to respond to the FRES System of systems integrator (SOSI) requirement; BAE, Boeing, Lockheed Martin, SAIC and Thales. Of course we can do this, it would just take weeks and weeks to carry it out, not in the slightest realistic however in the short timescale of the move itself. Sir Peter Spencer: For the third time, it was a pre initial gate concept phase contract. These included an infantry carrier and fire support variant. Er… Frank, I don’t think maths works that way lol. The FV430 series got updated to Bulldog, but isn’t related to Warrior any more than the M113 is to Bradley. I’m not entirely sure who the paint job and slogan are aimed at. There are a number of alternatives available, Are they all of a muchess, or are there genuine advantages/disadvantages. A battlegroup consisting of Ajax and Boxer will not be able to get the most out of Boxer’s strengths. Use B can, assuming the used APC module from User A are acceptable to User B, save some money by purchasing “new” drive modules and “used” APC modules rather than new modules of each. MWCap will be air portable at small scale for rapid deployment within 7 days to the core regions. How I would like to see this modular system work is the following; Firstly flip the mission to drive module ratio on its head, have more drive modules then mission ones. This was demonstrated by the French actions in 1991 Gulf War. Please poke holes and tell me what I’ve missed. Deploying independently, as platoon plus groups supposedly dominating designated areas, with many miles between. Should the armoured wheeled vehicle be selected as the British Army’s next generation Mechanised Infantry Vehicle (MIV), at least 60% of BOXER’s value creation and 100% of final assembly will take place in Britain. No problem, use the undamaged modules of each to turn two “bad” Boxers into one good one. The 1998 Strategic Defence Review (SDR) committed the UK to an interventionist foreign policy, recognising a change in the security environment. ….are you assuming that all your tests will give you a positive result? Ajax is a recce vehicle not a light tank; where does the Strike Brigade get it’s manoeuvre anti-tank capability from? 50 vehicles x 2000kms each) then the number of breakdowns that will be experienced (statistically) is 100 000 / 6000, correct? We want to give a lead, we want to be a force for good. No worries Ogden, TD seems pretty relaxed on these things. This is what’s worrying about the direction the M.O.D are taking on land warfare, it seems they have put all their eggs in one basket with the Carrier’s and their F-35’S but…….they aren’t always… Read more », Good news. Click here for a good rundown, but what really sent shockwaves around the world was the fact that the Russians had completed a long road march right under the noses of NATO.
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